different between moot vs otiose

English

Etymology 1

From Middle English moot, mot, ?emot, from Old English m?t, ?em?t (“moot, society, assembly, meeting, court, council, synod”), from Proto-Germanic *m?t? (“an encounter, meeting, assembly”), from Proto-Indo-European *meh?d- (“to encounter, come”). Cognate with Scots mut, mote (“meeting, assembly”), Low German Mööt (“meeting”), Moot (“meeting”), archaic Dutch (ge)moet (“meeting”), Danish møde (“meeting”), Swedish möte (“meeting”), Norwegian møte (“meeting”), Icelandic mót (“meeting, tournament, meet”). Related to meet.

Pronunciation

• enPR: mo?ot, IPA^(key): /mu?t/
• Rhymes: -u?t

Adjective

moot (comparative more moot, superlative most moot)

1. (current in Britain, rare in the US) Subject to discussion (originally at a moot); arguable, debatable, unsolved or impossible to solve.
   • 1770, Joseph Banks, The Endeavour Journal of Sir Joseph Banks, January 4, 1770 (published 1962):

     […] :indeed we were obligd to hawl off rather in a hurry for the wind freshning a little we found ourselves in a bay which it was a moot point whether or not we could get out of: […]

   • 1851, Herman Melville, Moby-Dick, Chapter 32:

     [T]he uncertain, unsettled condition of this science of Cetology is in the very vestibule attested by the fact, that in some quarters it still remains a moot point whether a whale be a fish.

   • 1903, Walter Crane and Lewis F. Day, Moot Points: Friendly Disputes on Art and Industry Between Walter Crane and Lewis F. Day
   • 2002, Colin Jones, The Great Nation, Penguin 2003, p. 477:

     The extent to which these Parisian radicals ‘represented’ the French people as a whole was very moot.

2. (Canada, US, chiefly law) Being an exercise of thought; academic.
3. (Canada, US) Having no practical impact or relevance.

   That point may make for a good discussion, but it is moot.

   • 2007, Paul Mankowski, "The Languages of Biblical Translation", Adoremus Bulletin, Vol. 13, No. 4,

     The question [whether certain poetry was present in the original Hebrew Psalms] in our own time is moot, since various considerations have made it certain that, of all the hazards presented by biblical translation, a dangerous excess of beauty is not one of them.

Synonyms

• (without relevance): irrelevant, obsolete (if it was previously relevant)

Derived terms

• moot point
• moot court
• ward moot

Translations

Noun

moot (plural moots)

1. A moot court.
   • 1531, Thomas Elyot, The Boke named the Governour

     The pleading used in courts and chancery called moots.

2. A system of arbitration in many areas of Africa in which the primary goal is to settle a dispute and reintegrate adversaries into society rather than assess penalties.
3. (Scouting) A gathering of Rovers, usually in the form of a camp lasting 2 weeks.
4. (paganism) A social gathering of pagans, normally held in a public house.
5. (historical) An assembly (usually for decision-making in a locality). [from the 12th c.]
6. (shipbuilding) A ring for gauging wooden pins.

Derived terms

• folkmoot
• gemoot

Etymology 2

From Middle English moten (“to speak, talk, converse, discuss”), from Old English m?tian (“to speak, converse, discuss”). See also mutter (which is a frequentative of moot).

Verb

moot (third-person singular simple present moots, present participle mooting, simple past and past participle mooted)

1. To bring up as a subject for debate, to propose.
2. To discuss or debate.

   • a problem which hardly has been mentioned, far less mooted, in this country

   • 1531, Thomas Elyot, The Boke named the Governour

     First a case is appointed to be mooted by certain young men, containing some doubtful controversy.
3. (US) To make or declare irrelevant.
4. To argue or plead in a supposed case.
   • 1641, Ben Jonson, Timber

     There is a difference between mooting and pleading; between fencing and fighting.

5. (regional, obsolete) To talk or speak.
   • 1535, William Stewart, The Buik of the Croniclis of Scotland:

     In that mater now I will mute no moir.

6. (Scotland, Northern England) To say, utter, also insinuate.

Usage notes

In the fifth sense, usually found in the archaic phrase no boot to moot, as in? it's no boot to moot with her (it is no use to talk/reason/plead with her).

In rural northern dialects of the UK, usually used together with the verbs mell and spell, where moot is used instead of talk and say; mell used instead of speak and converse; and spell instead of tell and relate. The verb moot in the sense to talk, say, utter etc., is part of an informal in-group speak or register wherein speakers (mostly of northern dialects) use this and the above-mentioned words when talking with one another and when talking with outsiders or strangers they, usually, only use the words like say, talk, speak etc. For example, if a mother is talking with her child she is much more likely to use words like moot, mell and spell, however if she is speaking with a stranger from the South she is extremely unlikely to use such words. Also, such words are usually considered taboo in formal contexts.

Noun

moot (plural moots)

1. (Scotland, Northern England) A whisper, or an insinuation, also gossip or rumors.

2. (Scotland, Northern England, rural) Talk.

Translations

References

• bosworthtoller.com
• The Middle English Dictionary
• The Dictionary of the Scots Language

Further reading

• Moot Hall

Etymology 3

Unknown.

Pronunciation

• IPA^(key): /?m?t/

Noun

moot (plural moots)

1. (Australia) Vagina.

References

• The New Partridge Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English, 2005, ?ISBN, pages vol. 2, p. 1320

Etymology 4

From Dutch moot (“piece”)

Noun

moot (plural moots)

1. (West Country) The stump of a tree; the roots and bottom end of a felled tree.

Derived terms

• moot-axe, mooting-axe
• moot earth
• moot-end

Verb

moot (third-person singular simple present moots, present participle mooting, simple past and past participle mooted)

1. (West Country) To take root and begin to grow.
2. (West Country) To turn up soil or dig up roots, especially an animal with the snout.

References

• Wright, Joseph (1903) The English Dialect Dictionary?^[3], volume 4, Oxford: Oxford University Press, page 157

Anagrams

• MOTO, moto, moto-, tomo-, toom

Dutch

Etymology

Ultimately related to Proto-Germanic *maitan?. This etymology is incomplete. You can help Wiktionary by elaborating on the origins of this term.

Pronunciation

• Rhymes: -o?t

Noun

moot m (plural moten, diminutive mootje n)

1. A thick slice or a cut, especially of fish.
2. (by extension) A chunk of any whole; a part.

Derived terms

• hoofdmoot (“main part, plurality, majority”)
• zalmmoot (“salmon chunk”)

Anagrams

• toom

Westrobothnian

Etymology

From Old Norse móta.

Pronunciation

• IPA^(key): /²mu?t/, [m????t]

  Rhymes: -ù?t

Verb

moot (preterite mote)

1. To shape (press) something in a mould.

Related terms

• mot

Noun

moot

1. nominative/accusative plural of mot

English

Etymology

From Latin ?ti?sus (“idle”), from ?tium (“ease”)

Pronunciation

• (Received Pronunciation) IPA^(key): /???.?i.??s/ or /???.ti.??s/
• (General American) IPA^(key): /?o?.?i.o?s/ or /?o?.ti.o?s/
• IPA^(key): /?o?.?i.?s/

Adjective

otiose (comparative more otiose, superlative most otiose)

1. Having no effect.
2. Done in a careless or perfunctory manner.
3. Reluctant to work or to exert oneself.
4. Of a person, possessing a bored indolence.
5. Having no reason for being (raison d’être); having no point, reason, or purpose.
   • 1895, Robert Louis Stevenson, Vailima Letters, ch 3

     On Friday morning, I had to be at my house affairs before seven; and they kept me in Apia till past ten, disputing, and consulting about brick and stone and native and hydraulic lime, and cement and sand, and all sorts of otiose details about the chimney – just what I fled from in my father’s office twenty years ago;

Synonyms

• (resulting in no effect): futile, ineffective
• (reluctant to work): indolent, lazy, sluggish
• (having no reason or purpose): superfluous, irrelevant, pointless

Antonyms

• (resulting in no effect): productive, useful
• (reluctant to work): hardworking
• (having no reason or purpose): essential, necessary

Derived terms

• otiosely
• otioseness
• otiosity

Related terms

• negotiate
• negotiation

Translations

Latin

Adjective

?ti?se

1. vocative masculine singular of ?ti?sus

References

• otiose in Charlton T. Lewis and Charles Short (1879) A Latin Dictionary, Oxford: Clarendon Press
• otiose in Charlton T. Lewis (1891) An Elementary Latin Dictionary, New York: Harper & Brothers
• otiose in Gaffiot, Félix (1934) Dictionnaire illustré Latin-Français, Hachette